Prabhupäda:

atha cainaà nitya-jätaà
nityaà vä manyase måtam
tathäpi tvaà mahä-bäho
nainaà çocitum arhasi

So this is the opinion of the modern scientists or the Buddha philosophy, that soul, there is nothing like soul separately, but by combination of matter, at a certain stage, the living symptoms are manifest. And as it is combination of several chemicals, so it is also finished as soon as the body is finished. There is no, nothing as soul. That is their opinion. So for argument's sake, Kåñëa says, "If you think like that, that the body is all in all..., by certain condition, the material elements combine, and again it is finished..." So Arjuna was declining to fight. So the, for argument's sake, Kåñëa says that "If you think like that, the body's everything, so it will be destroyed automatically. So why you are so much afraid?" Suppose I have combined some chemicals and it is destroyed... Say, bottles of chemicals, some way or other, it is destroyed. So who laments for that? You can purchase another bottle. That is simply for argument's sake. Actually, that is not the position. Now, if you think that the combination of chemicals can produce living force, then why don't you do it in the laboratory? The chemicals are there. You can combine and just produce a small ant, moving. Then it is... Science means observation and experiment. So if you simply observe, and cannot make any experiment, practical, so then that is not science. That is only theory. That is not possible. No scientist has ever made any living entity by combination of chemicals in the laboratory. Nobody can do that. (pause)

jätasya hi dhruvo måtyur
dhruvaà janma måtasya ca
tasmäd aparihärye 'rthe
na tvaà çocitum arhasi

Jätasya hi dhruvo måtyuù. "It is a fact that by the cycle of birth and death, one who dies, he has to accept again another body. So why you are deviating from your duty?"

The warfare of the kñatriyas and the warfare at the present moment of the whimsical politicians, it is, they are different. Formerly it was not democracy. Only the kñatriyas would fight. Especially the king, the royal order, they should come forward. Not that the politicians are sitting very comfortably at home, and poor people, they are given to fight in front of the enemy. No. That was not the system. The king must come forward. The other side, the king also come. And the opposite side, they also, he also should come forward and fight. It was duty. And as soon as the king is killed by the other party, then the other party becomes victorious. There was no more fighting. It is not the so-called king and president is sitting very comfortably and the poor soldiers, they are fighting unlimitedly, and the war is going on for many years. Just like last war we saw at least eight years it continued. Eight years, six years, no. The Battle of Kurukñetra, it was finished within eighteen days. There is no use of prolonging the war unnecessarily. If the chief man is killed, then war is finished. Therefore Kåñëa is advising Arjuna that "Suppose your grandfather on the other side dies, so where is the cause of lamentation? He's old man. He will get another, new body. So you should be rather happy that your old grandfather is going to have a new body." Jätasya hi dhruvo måtyuù. "And everyone will die. You die today or tomorrow, or, say, fifty years after. You have to die. It is as sure as death. So why should you deviate from your duty? You are a kñatriya. Your duty is to fight. Why you are afraid of being dead, or killing others? This is your duty."

avyaktädéni bhütäni
vyakta-madhyäni bhärata
avyakta-nidhanäny eva
tatra kä paridevanä

So the body was not existing before. And it will not exist after death. So in the via media, if the manifestation of body is there, so why it should be the object of lamentation? In this way, Kåñëa is trying to convince Arjuna that he should act as kñatriya and perform his duty. A kñatriya is profited, either dead or alive. That will be explained. Because in a, in a fighting, I mean to say, real religious fighting, on principle, it is, a kñatriya is not responsible for killing. Just like in sacrificial ceremony, if the animal is killed, the brähmaëa is not responsible for killing an animal. So because it is duty, it is ordained by the çästras, therefore they are not ordinary killing. Avyakta-nidhanäny eva tatra kä pari... "It was nonmanifested before, and it will become nonmanifested again. So why should you lament for the via media?"

äçcaryavat paçyati kaçcit enam
äçcaryavad vadati tathaiva cänyaù
äçcaryavac cainam anyaù çåëoti
çrutväpy enaà veda na caiva kaçcit

There are many theories and philosophical speculation all over the world about understanding the soul. Therefore Kåñëa is concluding that "Somebody's explaining wonderfully, somebody is hearing wonderfully, but even after hearing and speaking, it remains a mystery, and less intelligent person cannot understand it." That is the fact. There are so many theories. Therefore we have to accept the reality from the authority. By theorizing, by speculating, we cannot come into any decision. I may be very good logician. You may be greater logician. So you can defeat my logic. I can defeat your logic. So what is the conclusion? This kind of talking, it is called ku-tarka, unnecessarily talking, because you'll not come to my decision, I'll not come to your decision. So everyone is mysterious.

So in this way we cannot understand which is beyond the perception of our knowledge. Acintyäù khalu ye bhävä na täàs tarkeëa yojayet. Things which are beyond our perception, you, we should not simply try to understand by logic and argument. It is useless waste of time, because nobody can decide theory. The modern so-called scientists, they also write like that: "Perhaps," "It may be," like that. "It may be millions of years. It was like this." "It may be." What is the value of saying "It may be." Say definitely. That they cannot do. All the scientists" theory like "Perhaps," "Maybe." "Perchance, if it comes to be true..." So such kind of argument has no value. Therefore our çästra says: acintyäù khalu ye bhäväù. Beyond your perception, beyond your sense perception, don't try to understand it by argument and logic. Then how to know it? Know it from the person who knows it. That is knowledge. Just like we are trying to get knowledge about the soul, not by experiment, but we are trying to understand from the words of Kåñëa. Kåñëa is the authority. So He says, in the beginning: dehino 'smin yathä dehe kaumäraà yauvanaà jarä [Bg. 2.13]. We can... Kåñëa says, and we can think over it and ponder over it. Then we come to conclusion. And the other process, Vedic process, is:

yasya deve parä bhaktir
yathä deve tathä gurau
tasyaite kathitä hy arthäù
prakäçante mahätmanaù

Our process is descending process. We are not trying to understand by the ascending process. Inductive or deductive. We accept the statements of the Vedas. Therefore we haven't got to make much effort to understand a thing. Veda-vacana, çruti, çruti-pramäëa. There are three kinds of evidences: direct perception, and evidence from the Vedas, and evidence from history. Aitihya. Pratyakña, aitihya, çruti. Three kinds of evidences. So pratyakña and aitihya is neglected. According to our Vedic system, çruti-pramäëa, if it is statement, the statement is there in the çruti, in the Vedas, then we accept. We have got a society in India. They call veda-pramäëa. "We cannot accept without it is not mentioned in the Vedas." That's a, that's nice. But there is another class who are described in the Bhagavad-gétä by Kåñëa Himself: veda-väda-ratäù. They are simply unnecessarily fight on the basis of so-called Vedic knowledge. Vedic knowledge must be understood from the guru. That is injunction. They defy that. They... The Vedic injunction is... Kaöhopaniçad. Tad-vijïänärthaà sa gurum eva abhigacchet

1.2.12]. You... To understand the Vedas, you must approach a guru. Otherwise, you cannot understand. Just like it is forbidden that without becoming a brähmaëa, nobody should read Vedas. Because he cannot understand. Unless one is qualified brähmaëa, unless one has approached another qualified brähmaëa who knows, there is no question of understanding Vedas. Just like Max Muller translated Veda. What does he know about Veda? Such kinds of translation, understanding, is useless. Tad-vijïänärthaà sa gurum eva abhigacchet

1.2.12]. Abhigacchet means "He must!" There is not that "I may go or I may not." No, you must. If you really serious. In our vaiñëava-paramparä also... vaiñëava-paramparä is actually Vedic paramparä. That ädau gurväçrayam... Ädau gurväçrayam: "To enter into the spiritual life, first thing is first of all to accept a guru." That is... All big, big stalwarts... Even Vyäsadeva. Vyäsadeva, the wonderful literature. This reading. We are reading Bhagavad-gétä. It is Vyäsadeva's literature. He heard from Kåñëa and wrote it. And not only this. The Mahäbhärata, the Puräëas, the Vedänta-sütra, and the Çrémad-Bhägavatam. Wonderful literatures. There is no possibility of producing such literature by any scholar of these days. It is not possible. But he accepted guru, Närada, Närada Muni. When, after compiling all the Vedas, and Puräëas, even Vedänta-sütra, Vyäsadeva was not satisfied himself, he was seeming very morose, at that time, his spiritual master, Närada, came, and he asked that "Why you are morose? You have done so much nice literary work. So why you are not very happy?" So Vyäsadeva replied, "Yes, my lord, I am actually not happy, but I cannot understand why I'm not happy. So you know everything. Kindly describe why I'm not happy." So at that time, Närada replied him that "All the literatures you have so far made, they are with reference to the body and the mind. You have nothing described very nicely about the Supreme Soul. So now you try to describe something about the Supreme Lord, about the Supreme Soul. That will make you happy." Therefore he described the Çrémad-Bhägavatam. This is the history of Çrémad-Bhägavatam. And his last contribution was mature contribution was Vedänta-sütra. So from the Vedänta-sütra, he began writing Çrémad-Bhägavata: janmädy asya yataù [SB 1.1.1]. This is the beginning of Vedänta-sütra. Athäto brahma jijïäsä. He said, in a different language, jévasya tattva-jijïäsä.

So a human life should be engaged inquiring about the Absolute Truth, and he should inquire from a person who, who has heard about the Absolute Truth from a realized person. There is a.... Therefore it is called çruti, paramparä, disciplic succession. One... Just like Vyäsadeva is hearing from Närada. Närada is authorized. He has heard from Brahmä. Brahmä has heard from Kåñëa. So this is the paramparä system, disciplic succession. So there are four paramparä systems. They are known as, at the present moment, Rämänuja-sampradäya, Brahma-sampra..., Brahma-samprada..., yes, Madhva-sampradäya, Brahma-sampradäya, Madhva-sampradäya, the same, and Rudra-sampradäya and Çré-samp..., Çré, Räma, Kumära-sampradäya. These is four sampradäyas. So we should hear from the sampradäya-äcärya by disciplic succession. As Kåñëa recommends in this Bhagavad-gétä: evaà paramparä-präptam imaà räjarñayo viduù.

imaà vivasvate yogaà
proktavän aham avyayam
vivasvän manave präha
manur ikñväkave 'bravét
[Bg. 4.1]

Evaà paramparä-präptam imaà räjarñayo viduù. So that is the system. We should receive knowledge by the bona fide, paramparä system. Otherwise it may be bogus. Because without paramparä system, we cannot understand actual fact. And we have to become in the disciplic succession. We must accept a guru. Tasmäd guruà prapadyeta jijïäsuù çreya uttamam [SB 11.3.21]. If you are actually eager, anxious to understand the spiritual science, then you must approach a guru. Tasmäd guruà prapadyeta jijïäsuù çreya uttamam. Uttama means transcendental subject matter. You cannot learn it. Just like if you purchase one pharmacology book from the bookseller's shop, and if you read, at home, do you mean that you become a medical practitioner, pharmacist? No. You must go to the university, you must go to the college. You must hear the experienced professor and learn it and practically experiment it. Then you can learn. Not that by purchasing a book you become a medical practitioner or lawyer. That is not possible. Therefore the direction is that tad-vijïänärthaà sa gurum eva abhigacchet: [MU tad-vijïänärthaà sa gurum eväbhigacchet
samit-päëiù çrotriyaà brahma-niñöham

"To understand these things properly, one must humbly approach, with firewood in hand, a spiritual master who is learned in the Vedas and firmly devoted to the Absolute Truth."
[Muëòaka Upaniñad 1.2.12]

1.2.12] "Must." Here also we see, Kåñëa in the beginning was talking with Arjuna just like friends. But when Arjuna understood it that "We are talking like friends. So we cannot come into conclusion." The friend, they talk, they argue, they put logic. In that way, we cannot understand. Na täàs tarkeëa yojayet. Then? Tad-vijïänärthaà sa gurum eva abhigacchet. So therefore Arjuna surrendered himself: çiñyas te 'haà çädhi mäà prapannam. Kärpaëya-doñopahata-svabhävaù. "I, I can understand that I am a kñatriya. It is my duty to fight. But in front of my grandfather and relatives, I am declining to fight. Therefore I am affected with kärpaëya-doña. I am deviating from my duty. So why I am deviating from this duty? Therefore I am surrendering myself unto You."

So in a position of perplexity, one must approach a bona fide spiritual master. That is the process, Vedic process. Otherwise, it is not possible. And our Sanätana Gosvämé, our predecessor, Caitanya Mahäprabhu's direct disciple, he gives his direction that avaiñëava-mukhodgérëa-püta-hari-kathämåtam, çravaëaà na kartavyam. He says. He says, "Do not hear from a person who is not a Vaiñëava." He must, one must become a Vaiñëava. Otherwise his so-called ideas and interpretation has no value. Has no value. Just like in your country, South India, Dr. Radhakrishnan, he has done so many works. But to tell you frankly, it is useless labor. Because he has said in one of his writings that Bhagavad-gétä is mental speculation. He is surpassing all the äcäryas who came, who appeared in South India. Rämänujäcärya appeared in South India, Madhväcärya appeared in South India. Nimbärka appeared in South India. Viñëusvämé appeared in South India. Çaìkaräcärya appeared in South India. South India is so blessed. And he also appeared in South India. He's decrying all the äcäryas. Just see the position. He says, "Bhagavad-gétä is a mental speculation." And he has interpreted in a different way. Kåñëa says that man-manä bhava mad-bhakto mad-yäjé mäà namaskuru [Bg. 18.65]. And if you have seen Dr. Radhakrishnan's translation of Bhagavad-gétä, he says, "It is not to Kåñëa." Kåñëa says directly that man-manä bhava mad-bhaktaù. He says, "Not to Kåñëa." You'll see. So this defect will be there, unless one is sadäcära-sampanna-vaiñëava, self-realized. Therefore Sanätana Gosvämé says, avaiñëava-mukhodgérëa-püta-hari-kathämåtam. Our first guru is Kåñëa. To understand Bhagavad-gétä... Arjuna is understanding that Bhagavad-gétä from Kåñëa directly. So after understanding Bhagavad-gétä, Arjuna accepts Kåñëa as the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Paraà brahma paraà dhäma pavitraà paramaà bhavän, puruñaà säçvatam ädyam [Bg. 10.12]. These are the words. And Arjuna also accepted "It is very, very difficult to understand Your personality."

Now people may say that Arjuna was Kåñëa's friend. To satisfy his friend, he has accepted Him as paraà brahma. But that is not the fact. Arjuna gives evidences that "Not only I, but the great authorities like Vyäsa, Närada, Asita, Devala, they have also accepted You as the Supreme Personality of Godhead." In the recent ages... This is five thousand years ago. Even one thousand, five hundred... Çaìkaräcärya, who is impersonalist, he has also accepted Kåñëa as the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Sa bhagavän svayaà kåñëa. He has written in his commentary on the Bhagavad-gétä: näräyaëaù avyakta, avyaktät, para avyaktät. Näräyaëaù para avyaktät. "Näräyaëa is not a creation of this material world. He's transcendental." He has accepted. And what to speak of the Vaiñëava äcäryas, Rämänujäcärya, Madhväcärya, all. They have written so many nice commentaries on the Bhagavad-gétä, Brahma-sütra, establishing that the Supreme Absolute Truth is person, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Kåñëa is speaking as person. And He is warning the rascals: avajänanti mäà müòhä mänuñéà tanum äçritam "Because I am speaking as a human being, the rascals, they deride." Paraà bhävam ajänantaù. They do not know what is My influence, what is My power."

So this Personality of Godhead... It is a fact. Brahmeti paramätmeti bhagavän iti çabdyate. The last word is Bhagavän. From Bhagavän, the expansion is Paramätmä, localized aspect. Éçvaraù sarva-bhütänäà håd-deçe arjuna tiñöhati [Bg. 18.61]. That is expansion. Ekäàçena sthito jagat. That is one of the plenary portions. Viñöabhya aham. He enters within this universe, and therefore the universe becomes manifest. Just like I am soul, dehino 'smin yathä dehe [Bg. 2.13], I enter into this body. You enter into your body. Therefore the body expands. Similarly, the Supreme Personality of Godhead enters as Garbhodakaçäyé Viñëu within each and every universe. Then it becomes manifest. So there is no question of impersonal. The original source is person. Kåñëa says,

ahaà sarvasya prabhavo
mattaù sarvaà pravartate
iti matvä bhajante mäà
budhä bhäva-samanvitäù
[Bg. 10.8]

Budha, not the abudha. Abudha means less intelligent. Those who are intelligent, budhä bhäva-samanvitäù, with a bhäva, with an ecstatic position, can understand that Kåñëa is the original person. Ahaà sarvasya prabhavaù. Sarvasya means including Brahmä, Viñëu, Maheçvara, all the devatäs. Aham ädir hi devänäm. He is the original source of all the devas. The original devas within this... Brahmä is the first deva in the first creation. (aside:) What is that? So aham ädir hi devänäm. The Brahmä, Viñëu, Maheçvara. So He's the origin of Brahmä, Viñëu, Maheçvara. From Kåñëa, for material creation, there are three Puruñas. First of all, three puruñas. Not directly from Kåñëa. From Kåñëa, Baladeva. From Baladeva, catur-vyüha: Saìkarñaëa, Väsudeva, Saìkarñaëa, Pradyumna, Aniruddha. Then from Saìkarñaëa, Saìkarñaëa, Näräyaëa. Then second catur-vyüha. From the second catur-vyüha, Saìkarñaëa, the puruña-avatäras. Three puruña-avatäras, three Viñëus: Käraëodakaçäyé, Garbhodakaçäyé, and Kñérodakaçäyé Viñëu. So the, in the Vedic literature all these informations are there. And as Kåñëa says, personally, also... Arjuna accepted that "I accept, on the authority of Vyäsadeva, Närada, Devala, Asita, You are the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and You also speaking directly. Then where is my doubt?"

So we should follow... This is called paramparä system. As Arjuna understood Bhagavad-gétä, if we understand in that way, then we are perfect. I may be imperfect, but because I understand Bhagavad-gétä as it was understood by Arjuna, I am perfect. Because the knowledge I am distributing, that is not imperfect. Just like a post peon. A post peon is delivering you one thousand dollars. So he may be poor man, but the one thousand dollars, he is delivering, that is a fact. That is not bogus thing. Because he has not manufactured something. He has received that money order from the post office. He's asked to deliver it to such and such person. His honesty is to deliver the money order as it is to the bona fide person. That is his perfection. He doesn't require... Because he's delivering one thousand dollars, he doesn't require to become a very rich man. He may be a poor man. Similarly, a guru, a guru is perfect when he delivers the words of the superior authority as it is. Then he's perfect. He may be imperfect in your estimation. But that is his perfection, that he is not misleading people by becoming a so-called rascal scholar and interpreting in a different way and misleading the whole population. That is perfection. People say so much about me, that I have done some wonderful thing. But I say that I am not a magician. I'm not a magician. My only credit is that I am presenting Kåñëa as He is. That's all. I am not diluting Kåñëa. That is not my business. And therefore, because it is pure, pure ghee, therefore everyone accepts. And if you place dalda, mixing with ghee some rascal thing, then nobody will accept. Therefore, so many swamis went before me in the Western countries, and they presented adulterated, and there was not a single person became a kåñëa-bhakta. Now, by thousands they are becoming. Why? Because it is presented pure thing. Pure thing will be accepted everywhere. I give this example. In a, in Delhi, there is... I have seen. One, there is confectioner's shop. He rigidly prepares in pure ghee all the sweetmeats. So you'll find always hundreds of customers there. And there are by the side of that... Dalda manufacture. It is not... People are still prepared to pay sufficiently if you give pure thing. So our this Kåñëa consciousness movement is presenting Bhagavad-gétä as it is. We have not manufactured anything. While I started this movement in America, some friend suggested that "You are writing 'International Society for Krishna Consciousness.' Why not make it 'God consciousness.' It will be accepted by everyone." God is Kåñëa. There must, there must be clearly stated: "Krishna consciousness." I don't mind if nobody accepts it, but there must be 'Kåñëa.'

So actually it is very happy that Western countries, they are accepting Kåñëa. Why not? Kåñëa is for everyone. Kåñëa is Go... Kåñëa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. He says, ahaà béja-pradaù pitä, sarva-yoniñu kaunteya: [Bg. 14.4] "In all forms of life, the living entities, they are My part and parcel. They are my sons. I am the father, original." Béja-pradaù pitä. So why Kåñëa will not be accepted? And actually that is happening. They are coming from different groups, but because very one of us is Kåñëa's son, Kåñëa's part and parcel, therefore simply it requires a little attentive hearing about Kåñëa. Çravaëädi-çuddha-citte karaye udaya. Sevonmukhe hi jihvädau svayam eva sphuraty adhaù. In the Caitanya-caritämåta it is said, çravaëädi-çuddha-citte karaye udaya. Kåñëa is there, in everyone's heart. Éçvaraù sarva-bhütänäm [Bg. 18.61]. But we do not know. But Kåñëa and Kåñëa consciousness can be awakened simply by hearing from the realized person. Satäà prasaìgän mama vérya-saàvido bhavanti håt-karëa-rasäyanäù kathäù. Satäà prasaìgät. From the lips of devotees, when it is heard, then it becomes håt-karëa-rasäyana. It becomes very pleasing to the ear and to the heart. Taj-joñaëät, if one cultivates in that way, äçu apavarga-vartmani çraddhä bhaktir ratir anukramiñyati. These are the formulas.

So the process should be to receive the knowledge by disciplic succession, not sporadically hearing sometimes this scholar, hearing sometimes this scholar. "I interpret in my scholarship." No. This thing will not. Our process is, as directed by Sanätana Gosvämé, avaiñëava-mukhodgérëa-püta-hari-kathämåtam. Hari-kathä is amåta. Amåta. But still, it should not be received when it is uttered by some avaiñëava. There is another direction: avaiñëavo gurur na sa syät. Sat-karma-nipuëo vipro mantra-tantra-viçäradaù. A person, a brähmaëa, sat-karma-nipuëaù. Brähmaëa's business is become to become scholar and to make others scholar. Paöhana päöhana yajana yäjana. He must be a worshiper and he must teach others how to worship. Paöhana päöhana yajana yäjana däna pratigraha. Brähmaëa should receive charity and he makes immediately distribute the charity. So these, these are the occupational duty of brähmaëa. Paöhana päöhana. Sat-karma, sat-karma-nipuëaù. A brähmaëa, he is very expert in his business, sat-karma. Sat-karma-nipuëo mantra-tantra-viçäradaù. And he has read the Vedic literatures and tantras very nicely. Viçärada. Still, if he's not a Vaiñëava, then avaiñëava gurur na sa syät. By that only qualification, that he's not a Vaiñëava, he cannot become guru, whereas, on the other hand, sad-vaiñëavaù çva-pacaù guru. If a person, çva-pacaù... Çva-pacaù means coming of the family of dog-eaters, caëòäla, if he has become a Vaiñëava, sadäcära-sampanna-vaiñëava, sa guruù syät. You can accept him as guru. There are so many instances. Çréman Rämänujäcärya's guru was not from a brähmaëa family, but still, he accepted guru.

So in the Vaiñëava literature... Just like Haridäsa Öhäkura. Haridäsa Öhäkura, we give "Jaya, Öhäkura Haridäsa Öhäkura ki jaya." We say. This Haridäsa Öhäkura was born in a Mohammedan family. And Caitanya Mahäprabhu made him nämäcärya, Çréla Haridäsa Öhäkura. He was chanting Hare Kåñëa mantra daily three hundred thousands of times. So Caitanya Mahäprabhu selected him, nämäcärya. Caitanya Mahäprabhu Himself came to broadcast the glory of Hare Kåñëa mahä-mantra. So instead of becoming Himself the äcärya, He designated Haridäsa Öhäkura as äcärya. And similarly, Çré Sanätana Gosvämé, Çréla Rüpa Gosvämé, they also became Mohammedans. They were born in Hindu, särasvata-brähmaëa family, but due to their association as minister of the then Muslim government, they were rejected from the brähmaëa society. Formerly, the brähmaëa society was very strict. Anyone becoming serving, serving, servant, he is immediately excluded: "Oh, you cannot become a brähmaëa. You are serving." In the Çrémad-Bhägavatam also, by the, spoken by Närada, he says a brähmaëa, if he's in difficulty, he should not accept the business of a dog, service. He should not accept service. He may go to the profession of a kñatriya, or even up to vaiçya. Not of a çüdra. These are the injunctions. So they were strictly being followed. These Sanätana Gosvämé, they were very learned scholars, in Sanskrit, in Arabic language, Persian language, but because they accepted the ministership of Nawab Hussain Shah, immediately they were rejected. And they changed their name. Almost they became Muslim. Sakara Mallika, Dabhir Kasa. Their name was that. These are Mohammedan names. So they were living like that. But when Caitanya Mahäprabhu blessed them, they became the first-class gosvämés: Rüpa Gosvämé, Sanätana Gosvämé. This is Caitanya Mahäprabhu's mercy. And He therefore said, påthivéte äche yata nagarädi-gräma. He asked to spread this Kåñëa consciousness movement all over the world, in every village, in every town. Does he mean that let them become çüdras? Let them remain çüdras, and they become Kåñëa conscious? No. He did not mean like that. That means everywhere there should be Vaiñëava. And a Vaiñëava means above brähmaëa. That is the Kåñëa consciousness movement.

Thank you very much. Hare Kåñëa. [break]

(answering question:) Because you are here. It is for you. For us. You means you, me. Because we wanted to enjoy, we became, we wanted to lord it over the material nature, therefore God has given you the facility that "You enjoy." But just to make you convinced that we cannot enjoy, we become enjoyed... This conviction, when you come to this conviction, that we cannot enjoy, we become enjoyed, at that time, we seek after God. That is natural. Athäto brahma jijïäsä. So God has created this material world because we wanted it. That is the philosophy... [break] ...your opinion, why God has created? Eh?

Indian: No, I am not... (too faint)

Prabhupäda: But the... No, the trouble must be there because God has created this world for your enjoyment and for my enjoyment, there therefore must be struggle. Because I don't agree with you, you don't agree with me. So why there shall not be trouble? Because everyone, if everyone... Just like in office, if everyone wants to become the proprietor, will not there be confusion and chaos? Do you think the office will go on nicely? Similarly, here, God has given you chance to become master because you wanted, but everyone wants to be master. There is chaos. How there can be harmony when everyone wants to become God? Do you think it is all right? There must be chaos. Here is the position. Everyone in the material world, first of all, they want to become big man, big businessman, big, big this, big that, minister, president, and when everything is failure, then he wants to become God. That is the last snare of mäyä. So this is going on. How you can expect peace and prosperity here? That is not possible. Duùkhälayam açäçvatam [Bg. 8.15]. It is stated by Kåñëa Himself that this is a place only for misery, but under the influence of mäyä, we are accepting all miserable conditions of life as happiness. This is called mäyä.

Indian: Who is a real brähmaëa?

Prabhupäda: Who is qualified. Satya çama dama titikñä ärjava ästikyam jïänam vijïänam. When one has acquired all these qualities, then he becomes brähmaëa.

Indian: Caitanya Mahäprabhu (Hindi)...

Prabhupäda: [break]...come to Kåñëa consciousness. Sa guëän samatétyaitän brahma-bhüyäya kalpate. Mäà ca yo 'vyabhicäreëa bhakti-yogena sevate [Bg. 14.26]. Unless we come to that platform of bhakti-yoga and become re-related, not related, again revive our Kåñëa consciousness, we, there cannot be equality. That is not possible. There must be distinction, some higher class, some middle class, some lower class. Even in European countries, there are, in America there are, so are in India. So it is not very astonishing. Because the whole world is being conducted, the whole material nature is being conducted by the three guëas, and anyone associating with a particular type of guëa, he must suffer or enjoy according to that guëas. Jaghanya-guëa-våtti-sthä adho gacchanti tämasäù. Tämasa, they, those who are in the tämasika-guëa, they go adhaù. Madhye tiñöhanti räjasäù. And via media, those who are in touch with the rajo-guëa. And ürdhvaà gacchanti sattva-sthäù: those who are in the goodness, they go up, in the upper platform of the society or in the universe. But Kåñëa says, äbrahma-bhuvanäl lokäù punar ävartino 'rjuna [Bg. 8.16]. Either you go even to the Brahmaloka, one day you have come to the hellish loka. This is the way. So some, cakravat parivartante sukhäni ca duùkhäni ca. Just like the wheel turns round, sometimes up, sometimes down, so this is the position of this material world. There is no question of lamenting. You cannot say, "These people are suffering and that people are enjoying." The man who is enjoying, he'll also suffer next moment. This is going on, suffering and enjoying. Unless we come to Kåñëa consciousness, there is no way of coming out of this duality of this world. This is duality. Everything you'll find in dual. Unless there is happiness, you cannot understand what is distress. And unless there is distress, you cannot understand happiness. You cannot understand light unless there is darkness. So this is the world of darkness and light, so-called light. You have to transcend. Tyaktvä dehaà punar janma naiti [Bg. 4.9]. So we have to make arrangement. That facility is there to every human being, how he can get out of this world of duality and come to the transcendental platform which is called avyabhicäriëé-bhakti-yoga.

mäà ca yo 'vyabhicäreëa
bhakti-yogena sevate
sa guëän samatétyaitän
brahma-bhüyäya kalpate
[Bg. 14.26]

That is required. [break]

Indian: ...to know how to awaken kuëòaliné, and how to have permanent state of awakened kuëòaliné.

Prabhupäda: Chant Hare Kåñëa. (laughter) That's all. [break] Thank you.

Indian: ... Cärväka not to believe God at all.

Prabhupäda: Eh? What is that?

Indian: Cärväka, Cärväka...

Prabhupäda: Yes.

Indian: And what was... And second thing, the god among the daçävatäras, Buddha accepted, supposed to be one avatära. Buddha never told any idol worship, or any Räma and Kåñëa worshiping. And particularly one avatära, another avatära and this avadhüta. Or holy place. And will never accept in such a way, how to believe and what to believe and what is the temples.

Prabhupäda: So you reject everything. (laugher) That's all right. That is the way. That is very nice process. You reject everything. Because you are doubt in everything, so you reject everything. That's all right.

Indian: Even Lord Buddha... [break] ...these are the contradictory.

Prabhupäda: Hm. Therefore our philosophy is acintya-bhedäbheda-tattva. Acintya, inconceivable. Just like you are trying to conceive that whole world is God, and still, God is not there. That is spoken by God Himself, Kåñëa: mat-sthäni sarva-bhütäni nähaà teñu avasthitaù. Mayä tatam idam, avyakta-mürtinä. So this impersonal feature, brahmeti paramätmeti bhagavän iti, the impersonal feature is Brahman. Sarvaà khalv idaà brahma. That means sarvedam akhilaà jagat, parasya brahmaëaù çaktiù sarvedam akhilaà jagat. Just like the sunshine. You are in the sunshine. That is a practical faith. The sunshine is not different from the sun. The sun is ninety-three millions of miles away, but still, because you are in the sunshine, you are in sun. Can you deny it? That is the thing. You are in the sunshine. The sunshine is not different from the sun. But still, it is not the sun. This is the philosophy, inconceivably, simultaneously one and different. The sunshine is not different from the sun, but still, it is different. Similarly, the whole manifested, the cosmic manifestation is God, but still He is..., it is not God. This is, therefore it is called inconceivable, acintya. With our teeny brain, we cannot accommodate how it is one and different. Therefore it is called acintya. Acintya-bhedäbheda: different and separate, simultaneously. Everything. Idaà hi viçvo bhagavän ivetaraù. The whole world is Bhagavän, but it appears different from Bhagavän. So how? To a mahä-bhägavata, who understands actually what is Bhagavän, he does not see any difference. Because he, everywhere he sees his worshipable Deity, Kåñëa. He does not see anything. I am seeing a tree, but a devotee is seeing tree: "Oh, it is the energy of Kåñëa." Immediately he remembers Kåñëa and worships Him. So this is higher stage of realization of God, how the inconceivable things, simultaneously one and different, can be perceived. Therefore, there are three stages of devotional life, kaniñöhädhikäré, madhyamädhikäré, and uttamädhikäré. So to become uttamädhikäré, it is not so easy, but we are generally in the kaniñöhädhikäré. But we shall try to come to the madhyamädhikäré. Then our life will be successful.

Indian: That is correct, Swami. As you have told, he said we have no suffering. He suffered for others. We should not condemn them. We should pray to the Lord that we may take...