Pradyumna: Translation: "Arjuna said: The sun-god Vivasvän is senior by birth to You. How am I to understand that in the beginning You instructed this science to him?"

Prabhupäda: Hm. Where is book?

aparaà bhavato janma
paraà janma vivasvataù
katham etad vijänéyäà
tvam ädau proktavän iti

Arjuna knew it perfectly well that Kåñëa, his friend, is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. But to clarify the matter for others.... Because those who are not devotee, they cannot understand Kåñëa or Bhagavad-gétä. That we have explained in the previous verse. Kåñëa says that "The subject matter of Bhagavad-gétä is a great mystery, rahasyam, but because you are My devotee and because You are My friend, therefore I am again, speaking to you the same yoga system which was long long, millions of years ago I spoke to the sun-god." Imaà vivasvate yogaà proktavän aham avyayam [Bg. 4.1]. It is lost now. Sa käleneha yogo nañöaù parantapa. "Because the paramparä system has been diverted or misused, therefore it is now lost. But still, I shall again repeat the same yoga system, which is very, very old, puräëam. Although I spoke it first to Vivasvän, the sun-god..."

Vivasvän is the present sun-god, or the president. Just like you have got the president in your country. The Americans, they have got their president. Similarly, each and every planet has got its president. The present president is called Vivasvän. Of course, their duration of life is very, very great, greater than ours. But still they are also human being. They are also living being, having a different type of body. They can live in that sun planet although it is fiery. That I have already explained. (children talking) The children must not talk.

So Arjuna knew it perfectly well. "But as there are foolish men like me..." They cannot understand that Kåñëa spoke this Bhagavad-gétä millions of years ago to the sun-god. We immediately say, "Oh, these are all story." But it is not story. It is fact. Therefore Kåñëa, to clarify the matter, Arjuna, to clarify matter to the fools like us, he's asking this question that "My dear Kåñëa, we are contemporary. As I am born some years ago, You are also born some years ago. We are cousin-brothers. So how can I believe that You spoke this science, or the yoga system of Bhagavad-gétä, to the sun-god?

Suppose if I say, "Just now I'm coming from sun planet and I talked with sun-god," will you believe me? "Now, he's talking nonsense. He's coming from sun planet." So this is possible to inquire by the layman because people understand, Kåñëa is like us. Avajänanti mäà müòhä mänuñéà tanum äçritam, paraà bhävam ajänantaù [Bg. 9.11]. We accept Kåñëa, general people...

Sometimes we do not accept. There are many so-called scholars, they say that: There was no Kåñëa. It is all fictitious. There was no battlefield of Kurukñetra. It is all fictitious." They imagine their own meaning. But that is not the fact. Kåñëa is also historical, at the same time, He is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. These things cannot be understood unless one is a devotee. Therefore in the previous verse it has been said, bhakto 'si. The mystery of Bhagavad-gétä can be opened, disclosed, to the devotees, not to the nondevotees. The nondevotees may speculate in their specific platform of activities, as politician or as mundane philosopher or mundane scientist, but that is not the fact. The fact should be learned from the devotees of Kåñëa.

Therefore we are presenting Bhagavad-gétä As It Is, and it is being accepted all over the world. We have the greatest sale of our edition, this Bhagavad-gétä. Just three months before I got report. In London, in two months, we sold about thirty thousand copies. And the trades manager of Macmillan Company, he has sent me letter that while the other editions, they're diminishing, this edition is increasing by sale. Why? Because it is presented as it is, without any wrong interpretation. People are appreciating. This is a fact.

So people do not believe that Kåñëa is a historical person, at the same time, He's the Supreme Personality of Godhead. They think that He is a very learned man or a great politician, or a beautiful man. Like that. Avajänanti mäà müòhä mänuñéà tanum äçritam, paraà bhävam ajänantaù [Bg. 9.11]. They do not understand the background of Kåñëa.

So this thing is being clarified by the question of Arjuna, aparaà bhavato janma. "You are born along with me. You are my contemporary." And paraà janma vivasvataù. "And the sun-god, or the president of the sun, Mr. Vivasvän, he's long long ago. How can I believe that you talked with him?" This is the question. Aparaà bhavato janma paraà janma vivasvataù, katham etad vijänéyäm. "How I shall believe it?" Yes. This is possible, to inquire like that. Tvam ädau proktavän iti. "You first of all spoke this." This is the difference between God and the living entity. The.... God does not forget. We forget. This answer will be in the next verse. Bahüni me vyatétäni janmäni tava cärjuna täny ahaà veda sarväëi. "I understand. I know everything." In another place Kåñëa..., that "I know the past, present, future." That is knowledge.

Knowledge means, perfect knowledge means past, present, and future. There are many foretelling in the Çrémad-Bhägavatam about this Kali-yuga. They are stated in the Çrémad-Bhägavatam. Future.... Çrémad-Bhägavatam was written five thousand years ago. Still, what was stated at that time, they're coming to be true. That is called çästra. Past, present, and future. So Kåñëa knows everything. Vedähaà samatétäni. He says that "I know everything, past, present, and future." That is perfect knowledge.

Why you are hankering after Kåñëa? Because He is perfect. We are not perfect. We have got so many deficiencies. We commit mistake, we are illusioned, we cheat and our senses are imperfect. We cannot acquire knowledge by sense perception perfectly. So with so many imperfectness, if we try to become a teacher, then I am a cheater. I am not a teacher. We must know first of all. So we are receiving knowledge from Kåñëa because Kåñëa is accepted the Supreme Personality of Godhead and with perfection of knowledge.

So here the matter is being clarified, and Kåñëa is answering also that bahüni me janmäni vyatétäni. Kåñëa appears.... Kåñëa says, yadä yadä hi dharmasya glänir bhavati bhärata tadätmänaà såjämy aham [Bg. 4.7]. He comes on this planet or in this universe. When He comes in this universe, He comes on this planet. There are innumerable universes. Not one, but innumerable. So there is a rotation of Kåñëa's coming here.

Just like the sun rotates every twenty hours.[?] He's visible in the morning. Just like here just now it is half past eight. At six o'clock in the morning the sun will be visible. Everyone can say. Any experienced man. This is not foretelling. By experience. Any child can say that "Tomorrow at six o'clock the sun will appear." Similarly, the çästras say, "At such and such time Kåñëa will come." One who knows. One who does not know, how he'll say? But there are indications, "In Brahmä's one day Kåñëa appears on the Dväpara-yuga." So therefore Kåñëa says, bahüni me janmäni. Bahüni me vyatétäni janmäni tava cärjuna. "You have also passed many births, and I have also many times appeared, and because we are friends, we appear together. That is also fact.

But the difficulty is täny ahaà veda. I know all those things, when I appeared last, what did I do, and when I shall again appear. These things known to Me. Täny ahaà veda sarväëi. Sarväëi, past, present, and future, I know everything. Na tvaà vettha parantapa. Although you are a great warrior, parantapa..." Parantapa means one who can get, one who can give trouble to the enemies. Paraà tapati. "So although you are a very great warrior, a great personality, but you cannot know this. You cannot know this. That is the difference between you and Me."

That is the difference between God and the living entity. We had our past life, because dehäntara-präptiù, we have changed our body. And we shall change this body also. after annihilation of this body.... Väsäàsi jérëäni yathä vihäya [Bg. 2.22]. Old garments, old cloth, when it is too old, unuseable, then we give it up. We accept another new cloth. Similarly, when this body becomes unuseable, then we change our body. We get another new body. This is the way of transmigration of the soul. This is a fact.

dehino 'smin yathä dehe
kaumäraà yauvanaà jarä
tathä dehäntara-präptir
dhéras tatra na muhyati
[Bg. 2.13]

So dehäntara-präptiù is there. But we have forgotten what I was in my last life. That I cannot say. Neither I can say what kind of body I am going to get next. That I cannot say. Our knowledge is so imperfect that we cannot say. But Kåñëa can say past, present, and future. It is said here, täny ahaà sarväëi. Everything. Sarväëi means, "I veda..." Sarväëi means past, present, and future.

Now we can derive conclusion that how is that? Kåñëa appears like human being and we are also human being, the same two hands, two legs, one head. How is that He knows everything and I do not know? The conclusion should be derived like this, that we forget because we change our body. Just like I was a child, you were a child. Everyone of us. We did so many things in our childhood, but we have forgotten. With the change of the body, the activities of my past body is forgotten. This is a fact. Similarly when we change this body we get another body. We forget. But why Kåñëa has not forgotten? That means He does not change His body. This should be the conclusion. This should be the conclusion from right, logical point of view. I forget because I change my body. Kåñëa does not forget. He does not change His body. This should be the conclusion.

And Kåñëa says also that sambhavämy ätma-mäyayä [Bg. 4.6]. "I appear and disappear by My own energy." We are forced by the other energy. Just like I have got human body now. Now I shall have to change my body after my death. That change of body is not in my hand. Factually, it is in my hand, because according to karma, if I work nicely, then you get good body. And if you do not work nicely, then we get bad body. That we can understand from the çästra. Ürdhvaà gacchanti sattva-sthäù. How we can understand? Çästra-cakñusä. You have to see through the çästra. Otherwise, we have no eyes to see past, present, future.

Just like the astrology. Astrology, by calculation through the çästra, astrological calculation can say what you were in your past life and what you will become in your next life. There is an astrological system. They can say like that. So through the çästra, by right calculation, we can understand.

So what is that? The total is that ürdhvaà gacchanti sattva-sthäù. Those who are situation in the modes of goodness, brahminical qualification.... Satyaà çamo damas titikñä ärjavam, jïänaà vijïänam ästikyaà brahma-karma svabhäva-jam. If we remain perfectly a brähmaëa, truthful, clean, satyaà çaucaà çamaù, sense-controlling mind-controlling, satyaà çaucaà çamo damas titikñä, tolerance: ärjava, simplicity; jïänam, full knowledge; vijïänam, application of knowledge in life; vijïänam, ästikyam, full knowledge of the Absolute Truth; ästikyaà brahma-karma svabhäva-jam, if we remain in this qualification, brahminical qualification, this is called sattva-sthä, situated in the sattva-guëa. The rajo-guëa and tamo-guëa cannot conquer. In that situation you'll be elevated to the higher planets. This is çästra says.

Ürdhvaà gacchanti sattva-sthä madhye tiñöhanti räjasäù [Bg. 14.18]. And the middle planetary system, this earthly planet is the middle. Bhür bhuvaù svaù, up to Svargaloka. So if we remain in the modes of passion, then within these planets we may rotate.

And jaghanya-guëa-våtti-sthä adho gacchanti tämasäù. Those who are tämasäù, because they have got very abominable characters.... The abominable character is described in the çästra, sinful life. Illicit sex, intoxication, meat-eating, and gambling. These are the four pillars of abominable life. Tamasi. The çästra says, tamasi mä jyotir gamaya. So if we remain in this tamasi, then jaghanya-guëa-våtti-sthä adho gacchanti tämasäù. Adho gacchanti means lower planetary system or animal life , degraded life, abominable life, low grade life. We shall get.

This is the sum and substance. But we do not know.... Although we do not know, but the nature's law will oblige me to accept a body like that. Karmaëä daiva-netreëa jantur dehopapattaye [SB 3.31.1]. We get another body according to the karma we are performing now. So Arjuna is a devotee. That has been explained in the previous.... Bhakto 'si. Bhakto 'si me sakhä ceti. Arjuna is not only a devotee, ordinary.... Not ordinary devotee but personal friend. Arjuna is personal friend of Kåñëa. Bhakto 'si sakhä ceti. Therefore Kåñëa says täni. Bahüni me vyatétäni janmäni tava cärjuna. "You are My bhakta and personal friend; so whenever I appear, you also appear with Me." Because he is bhakta. Bhakta, and Bhagavän, they must be together. That is the advantage of bhakta. Although he has got the frailty.... Because the living entity is the minute particle of God, mamaiväàço jéva-bhütaù [Bg. 15.7], therefore his intelligence, his power, is also very minute. But God's power is unlimited. By unlimited power Kåñëa knows the past, future, and present, everything perfectly. But our limited knowledge, we cannot know that. Therefore we have to receive knowledge from Kåñëa. This is our position. Tad-vijïänärthaà sa gurum eväbhigacchet, samit-päëiù çrotriyaà brahma-niñöham [MU tad-vijïänärthaà sa gurum eväbhigacchet
samit-päëiù çrotriyaà brahma-niñöham

"To understand these things properly, one must humbly approach, with firewood in hand, a spiritual master who is learned in the Vedas and firmly devoted to the Absolute Truth."
[Muëòaka Upaniñad 1.2.12]

So we have to approach either Kåñëa or Kåñëa's representative. Then we can understand Kåñëa. Otherwise, simply by mental speculation, by so-called erudite scholarship, nobody can know.

panthäs tu koöi-çata-vatsara-sampragamyo
väyor athäpi manaso muni-puìgavänäm
so 'py asti yat-prapada-sémny-avicintya-tattve
govindam ädi-puruñaà tam ahaà bhajämi
[Bs 5.34]

Even.... Just like you go by airplane. This is air speed. There is another speed. Panthäs tu koöi-çata-vatsara-sampragamyo, väyor athäpi manaso muni-puìgavänäm. There is another speed, mind speed. We have experience of the light speed, of the air speed, but we do not know what is the mind speed. Mind speed is so strong that within a second you can go many millions of miles. Within a second. And you can understand, if the mind speed is so strong, how much the speed of spirit is so strong. Kåñëa says in the Bhagavad-gétä, tyaktvä dehaà punar janma naiti mäm eti kaunteya [Bg. 4.9]. If you become fully conversant with Kåñëa consciousness, the result will be, tyaktvä deham, just giving up this body, just immediately after death.... Tyaktvä dehaà punar janma naiti mäm eti [Bg. 4.9].

Otherwise, those who are not Kåñëa conscious, they will accept another material body. Immediately they'll have to enter into the womb of a mother, particular mother. Daiva-netreëa. As soon as decision is made by superior power that "This living entity has done such and such thing, he should be promoted or degraded. He should enter into such mother's body through the semina of the father," so immediately he's given place in the material body of a mother.

But those who are Kåñëa conscious, immediately they are transferred where Kåñëa is there. This is the process. Immediately, by spiritual force.... Tyaktvä dehaà punar janma naiti mäm eti kaunteya [Bg. 4.9]. Mäm eti. "Immediately he comes to Me." Kåñëa is there.

Within this material world He's also there. In some of the universes. There are innumerable universes, I have already explained. Somewhere He is there. So a devotee just after giving this body, giving up this body, immediately he is transferred to that universe where Kåñëa is there. And when he's trained up, then he is, again, he's transferred to the Goloka Våndävana, the spiritual sky. These are the description of Sanätana Gosvämé in Båhad-bhägavatämåta, how a living entity...

So in this way we are changing our body but because we are minute particle of Kåñëa.... We have got qualities of Kåñëa not cent percent. Seventy-eight percent. When they are perfect, so minute quantity, then we can also become a little more advanced than at the present moment. But not like Kåñëa. Kåñëa is cent percent perfect. We can become minutely perfect, seventy-eight percent. These are all analyzed by the Gosvämés. So in the present stage, our conditioned stage, there is no comparison with Kåñëa, what to speak of becoming Kåñëa. The rascal foolish persons, they claim that they have become Kåñëa. It is not possible. This is the defect, that we forget. They ask so many the incarnation of God, about his past life. They cannot speak.

So this is the qualification of God. He knows past, present and future. And those who are false God, they cannot say. That is not possible. This is the test. They are claiming, falsely claiming. But God means, He knows. His body does not change. Past.... He knows past, present, future means His body does not change.

Why He does not change? That is described in the çästra. Éçvaraù paramaù kåñëaù sac-cid-änanda-vigrahaù [Bs. 5.1]. Vigrahaù means body, form. This transcendental form is made of sac-cid-änanda. Sac-cid-änanda. Sat means eternal, eternity. Oà tat sat. So sat, cit. Cit means full of knowledge. Full of knowledge here, täny ahaà veda sarväëi. This is called cit. He knows everything, past, present and future. Sat, cit, and änanda. You see Kåñëa's form here, änanda. He's enjoying. This is real Kåñëa's form. He is always enjoying. Änandamayo 'bhyäsät in the Vedänta-sütra it is said. He's änandamaya. Kåñëa, real form...

The Kåñëa's form in the battlefield of Kurukñetra, that is not Kåñëa's real form. That is Kåñëa's Väsudeva form. Kåñëa expands Väsudeva, Saìkarñaëa, Aniruddha, in that say. So this is a great science, Kåñëa science. If you are interested, there are books you can study and you can understand what is Kåñëa. Janma karma (ca) me divyaà yo jänäti tattvataù [Bg. 4.9]. So everyone should try to understand Kåñëa in truth. But people do not try to understand.

manuñyäëäà sahasreñu
kaçcid yatati siddhaye
yatatäm api siddhänäà
kaçcin mäà vetti tattvataù
[Bg. 7.3]

Tattvataù means truth. That is very difficult. Kåñëa says, out of many millions of persons, one tries to become siddha. Siddha means perfect. Ahaà brahmäsmi. When one knows that "I am not this material body, I am spirit soul, I am eternal servant of God, Kåñëa," that is perfection. So this, for this perfection, out of many millions of persons, one becomes perfect. One who knows.

brahma-bhütaù prasannätmä
na çocati na käìkñati
samaù sarveñu bhüteñu
mad-bhaktià labhate paräm
[Bg. 18.54]

So this is also very difficult to become brahma-bhütaù. We are now jéva-bhütaù. But people are not interested to become brahma-bhütaù or devotee of Kåñëa. They are interested to continue this material way of life, changing the body. They do not know. They think this body is all in all, but that is not the fact. That is the first instruction of Bhagavad-gétä, dehäntara-präptiù. You have to change your body, as you are already changing. These are stated there. So yatatäm api siddhänäà kaçcin mäà vetti tattvataù [Bg. 7.3]. Even those who are siddha... There are many big, big sannyäsés, impersonalists. They cannot understand Kåñëa. It is a fact. They consider Kåñëa as ordinary human being. Avajänanti mäà müòhäù. So it is very difficult to understand Kåñëa. But if you want to understand Kåñëa, try to understand Kåñëa from Kåñëa, not otherwise. Then you will understand Kåñëa.

manuñyäëäà sahasreñu
kaçcid yatati siddhaye
yatatäm api siddhänäà
kaçcin mäà vetti tattvataù
[Bg. 7.3]

And how that process can be perfect? That is also explained. Bhaktyä mäm abhijänäti yävän yaç cäsmi tattvataù [Bg. 18.55]. Again tattvataù. So we have to understand Kåñëa tattvataù, in truth. So here is one explanation, that although Kåñëa appeared like human being, He is not a human being. He's the Supreme Personality of Godhead. And the test is that He knows everything. That is described in the Vedänta-sütra. Janmädy asya yataù anvayäd itarataç cärtheñv abhijïaù sva-räö [SB 1.1.1]. He's abhijïaù. He's fully conversant with all knowledge.

And wherefrom He got knowledge? Sva-räö. Sva-räö means independently. In the Vedas it is said, sväbhäviké jïäna-bala-kriyä ca.

Sväbhäviké. He doesn't require to tax His brain how to do things. Immediately He desires, everything is done. That is Kåñëa. Immediately what He wants, as soon as. Sa aikñata. As soon as He glanced over the material nature, there was creation. These are the Vedic statements.

Therefore here, to inquire about Kåñëa, to clarify the matter, that what is Kåñëa. Because He is all-powerful, all-cognizant, fully conversant, sva-räö, therefore He could speak millions of years ago to the sun-god. This is not story. This is fact. To clarify this matter, Arjuna inquired from Kåñëa, "How can I believe it?" And the answer is next verse, that "We, you, you and Me, both of them took many many times our birth, but you have forgotten because you are a living being and I am the Supreme Personality of Godhead, I have not forgotten. This is the difference between you and Me."

bahüni me vyatétäni
janmäni tava cärjuna
täny ahaà veda sarväëi
na tvaà vettha parantapa