Prabhupäda:

yadä yadä hi dharmasya
glänir bhavati bhärata
abhyutthänam adharmasya
tadätmänaà såjämy aham
[Bg. 4.7]

In last night we have discussed that how the Supreme Personality of Godhead, He descends, what is the reason of His descending on this material platform. That we have partially discussed last night, that although He is the supreme authority of all energies, although He is unborn, although He is the Lord of all planets or all creation, material creation and spiritual creation, He comes.

ajo 'pi sann avyayätmä
bhütänäm éçvaro 'pi san
prakåtià sväm adhiñöhäya
sambhavämy ätma-mäyayä
[Bg. 4.6]

He comes not being forced by the laws of material nature, but He comes out of His own energy. This point we have discussed last night.

Now the next point is why does He come? That is explained in the next verse, that yadä yadä hi dharmasya glänir bhavati [Bg. 4.7]. As soon as there is discrepancy in the matter of discharging occupational duty. I purposely translate the word dharma as occupational duty. Everyone has got occupational duty. Çrémad-Bhägavatam also confirms it, ataù pumbhir dvija-çreñöhä varëäçrama-vibhägaçaù, svanuñöhitasya dharmasya. The same word, dharma. Svanuñöhitasya, prescribed duty. Svanuñöhitasya dharmasya saàsiddhiù, the perfection. How you are perfected by discharging your occupational duty, how it is tested. That test is svanuñöhitasya dharmasya saàsiddhiù. Your occupational duty will be perfect when? Saàsiddhir hari-toñaëam [SB 1.2.13]. When you satisfy the Supreme Lord by your occupational duties. That is dharma.

Now let us consider what is our occupational duty. I purposely do not translate this word dharma as religion. Religion is imperfect conception of the word dharma. In the dictionary we find religion means a particular type of faith. But dharma does not mean that. Dharma means natural occupation. That is called dharma. I have several times explained this word dharma in this class. Just like heat of the fire. Without heat, a fire has no meaning. Wherever there is fire, there is heat and light. Therefore heat and light is the dharma or religion of fire. That means fire cannot change its dharma. As this dharma, as we generally understand by the word faith, that we can change. Today I am Hindu. I can become tomorrow a Christian. You are Christian today. You can become, I mean to say, Hindu or Muslim tomorrow. So this faith can be changed, but this dharma, as I explain, that natural sequence, natural occupation or natural intimately connection...

Just like the fire, heat and light. This cannot be changed. Either the fire is in America or the fire is in India or a fire is in Russia, the heat and light is there. That is actually the dharma.

Now here Kåñëa says that yadä yadä hi dharmasya glänir bhavati bhärata [Bg. 4.7]. As soon as there is discrepancy in the discharge of that natural, I mean to say, sequence of the living entity... Abhyutthänam adharmasya. Abhyutthänam means uprising of unnatural activities or unnatural occupation, which is not for him. Abhyutthänam adharmasya tadä, at that time, ätmänam, self, såjämy aham. Såjämy aham means "I descend or appear." Now, this sequence of dharma is explained in the last paragraph, I mean to say, not last, in the last chapter, sixty-seventh verse of the Eighteenth Chapter. The Lord says that sarva-dharmän parityajya [Bg. 18.66]. "You just give up all kinds of occupational duty or religiosity." We have created all kinds of religious formula. So Kåñëa says that "You give up all kinds of religious formula." But what is to be done? Sarva-dharmän parityajya mäm ekaà çaraëaà vraja [Bg. 18.66]. "You just surrender unto Me."

That means that surrendering unto the Supreme Personality of Godhead is the real religion of the living entity. Not that I like a particular type of faith, that is my religion. Religion means when one is trained how to surrender unto the Supreme Personality of Godhead. That is called religion. And the Çrémad-Bhägavatam also gives enunciation of the word dharma, that sa vai puàsäà paro dharmaù. That is the best system of religion, sa vai puàsäà paro dharmaù. Yato bhaktir adhokñaje. By which one is trained to surrender unto the Supreme Personality of Godhead. That is best.

Now you can select your own religion. Either you be a Hindu or Muslim or Mohammedan or Buddhist, whatever you like, Çrémad-Bhägavata does not stop you, but it gives you hint what is the purpose of religion. The purpose of religion is to develop your love of Godhead. That is real religion. So here Kåñëa says that yadä yadä hi dharmasya glänir bhavati [Bg. 4.7]. As soon as there is decadence of people's love of Godhead... That means when people become forgetful, almost forgetful. Because at least some people remember that there is God. But generally, in this age, they are forgetful. That is dharmasya gläniù. And by forgetting God the people cannot be happy. That is also another cause. People are thinking that "God is dead. We have no obligation to God. There is no God." This sort of thinking will never make the people happy. And actually, it is happening. They have become atheistic. The modern civilization is Godless, but people are not happy. Therefore God or His representative comes when people forget his relationship with God.

So real religion is to understand what is our relationship with God. And then the relationship is, as it is found in the Bhagavad-gétä and confirmed by great äcäryas like Lord Caitanya.

Lord Caitanya immediately enunciates the constitutional position of the living entity. Sanätana Gosvämé inquired from Him that, "Who am I? Why I am always in miserable condition, three kinds of miserable condition?" So in answer to this question, "Who am I?" or "Who are all these living entities?" Çré Caitanya Mahäprabhu immediately answered that jévera svarüpa haya nitya-kåñëa-däsa [Cc. Madhya 20.108-109]. The real identity of the living entity is that he is eternally servant of God. We should not understand this word servant in the meaning of materialistic servant. To become servant of God is a great position. That is not ordinary position. Just like people try to get some government servitorship. Government service. That is also servant, to become servant. Why? Or people try to get some service in some established firm, well-reputed business firm. Why? That service is comfortable, there is great profit in such kind of service. So if people are satisfied by getting a government service or service in some good establishment, then just think over if you become servant of God then what is your position? Because God is the government of all government. So to become servant of God... We are servant of God constitutionally. Just like Caitanya Mahäprabhu says, jévera svarüpa haya nitya-kåñëa-däsa [Cc. Madhya 20.108-109].

But at the present moment, I am thinking that I am master, I'm not servant. This is called mäyä. Actually I am servant, but I am thinking master. Everyone is trying to lord it over the material nature according to his capacity. Controller, master, he's trying to be, but actually his position is servant. So when he forgets his servitorship, that is called dharmasya glänir, discrepancy of his natural position. Dharmasya.

Now another point of dharma is, as Baladeva Vidyäbhüñaëa is describing here, is dharmasya vedoktasya glänir vinäça. Now this is ordinary sense of religion. Just like everyone has got some scripture. The Hindus, they have got Vedic scripture. The Muslims, they have got Koran. The Christians, they have got Bible, Old Testament, New Testament. Similarly, there are many other religious sects, they have got their own scripture. So Baladeva Vidyäbhüñaëa says that vedoktasya dharmasya. Dharma means the rules and regulations as they are prescribed in the scriptures.

Just like state laws. State laws, there are some rules and regulation in the lawbook, in the statute book of the particular state. Similarly, dharma, another meaning of dharma is, it is the law of God. Maybe differently described in different countries according to different climatic condition or situation. But in every religious scripture the obedience to God is instructed. That is a fact. No scripture says that there is no God and you are independent. Either it is Bible or Koran or Vedas or even Buddhist literature, Buddhist scripture.

Generally, according to Buddha philosophy, there is no soul, no God. But they have to obey Lord Buddha. So there is also God because Lord Buddha is accepted by the Vedic literature. Just in the Çrémad-Bhägavatam there is a great list of incarnations, and Buddha, Lord Buddha, is accepted as one of the incarnations who would appear. It is in future tense. Kékaöeñu bhaviñyati. Buddho nämnä aïjana-sutaù kékaöeñu bhaviñyati. Now bhaviñyati means "He will appear in future." Because Çrémad-Bhägavatam was compiled by Vyäsadeva five thousand years ago, and Lord Buddha appeared about two-thousand-six-hundred years ago. Therefore before the appearance of Lord Buddha the Çrémad-Bhägavatam was written. This is called çästra. Because there is accurate date and accurate calculation. Everything is there. Buddho nämnä aïjana-sutaù kékaöeñu bhaviñyati. The mother's name also given there, aïjana-suta. And kékaöeñu means Gayäpradesh. In India there is a province called Bihar. In that province there is a district Gayä. In that district Lord Buddha appeared. Lord appeared in Bihar province. He was kñatriya, He was Hindu, and He propagated this religion of nonviolence, Buddhism.

His specific propaganda was to stop animal killing. So animal killing is recommended in the Vedic literature. Therefore people wanted to give him Vedic evidences that "In the Vedic literature animal sacrifice is recommended under certain condition. So how do you preach? You are Hindu and you are followers of Vedas. Why you are preaching nonviolence?" Therefore he had to give up Hindu religion. He said that "I do not care for your Vedas. It is my propaganda to stop animal killing. So if you follow me, then you must stop animal killing." Ahiàsä paramo dharmaù. So later on, of course, Lord Buddha was patronized by a great emperor, Açoka, and therefore practically all Indian population turned to be Buddhist, with few exceptions.

Then Çaìkaräcärya came and he preached this almost Buddhism. The Buddha, Lord Buddha preached that there is no God, there is no soul. This body is combination of matter and if we dissolve this material combination then there is no more perception of misery or happiness. That is nirväëa. That is his philosophy. But later on, Lord, I mean to say, Äcärya Çaìkara, he appeared and he preached that brahma satyaà jagan mithyä. This bodily combination is temporary, or mithyä. He said flatly that it is false. False means... Of course, Vaiñëava philosophy, they say temporary. Temporary or false you can take on the same category. But Çaìkaräcärya said that brahma satyam. That spirit soul, Brahman, that is reality, and this external feature of the Brahman, or the body, that is false.

So anyway, here the point is that in any religion there is a conception of worshiping God or symbol of God. Even in Jain philosophy they also worship Mahävéra. In Buddha philosophy they worship Lord Buddha. In India there is Jainism. That is almost like Buddhism. They have got also exactly the same process of worship. Temples they have got. Big, nice, costly temples they have got. And they come to see, visit the temple, offer their worshipful offerings, flowers, fruits, everything. Same thing.

Similarly, in the temple of Guru-dväras, Sikhs... [break] ...like the Hindus. And they also offer flower, fruits, and sweetmeat, but they read their Granthasahib. As we are reading Bhagavad-gétä they read Granthasahib enunciated by Guru Nanak. So this temple worship or accepting some authority, either you accept Kåñëa or you accept Lord Jesus Christ or jehovah or Lord Buddha or Guru Nanak, that is a different, I mean to say, kinds of faith, but this acceptance of authority is there in everywhere. Now who is the highest authority, that we have to see by understanding Vedic literature, by our arguments, by our sense, by our understanding. But this acceptance of authority is there.

So dharmasya gläniù means when we defy authority. That is called discrepancy in the discharge of religiosity or occupational duty. Even in your office, even in the government, if you do not accept authority there is chaos, there is revolution. So this sort of mentality is very dangerous. When one does not accept any authority, that is his chaotic condition. So Lord Kåñëa says that dharmasya... yadä yadä hi dharmasya glänir bhavati [Bg. 4.7].

So dharmasya glänir bhavati means one sense, that I have explained, occupational duty. Now we have got, our present position is in three status. What is that? In the gross status of our understanding, we take this gross body as my self. At that time my dharma or occupational duty is different. When I accept mind as myself, then my occupational duty becomes different. But when I understand that I am spirit soul, then my occupational duty is different.

Here Kåñëa, because He is Supreme Soul, Supreme Personality of Godhead, He means that dharma, or occupational duty on the spiritual platform. He does not mean dharma or occupational duty on the gross bodily platform or subtle mental platform. He means dharma, the occupational duty on the spiritual platform. And that is confirmed by Lord Caitanya. Jévera svarüpa haya nitya-kåñëa-däsa [Cc. Madhya 20.108-109]. That real constitutional position of the living entity, especially of the human being, is to accept servitorship of Kåñëa. So in other word, when there is discrepancy in the matter of Kåñëa consciousness, at that time Kåñëa comes. Kåñëa descends. Kåñëa descends.

Kåñëa descends means sometimes He personally descends, sometimes He descends by His incarnation, sometimes He descends as a sound vibration, sometimes He descends as devotee. There are many different categories of His descendance. And at the present moment this Kåñëa has descended in His holy name. You should understand that. Kåñëa kali-käle näma-rüpe kåñëa-avatära. This is the statement of Lord Caitanya, that in this age of Kali, Kåñëa has descended in the sound vibration form. Sound is also one of the form. Just like oàkära is the form of Kåñëa. Akñaräëäm oàkäro 'smi. Similarly, Kåñëa, now, at the present moment, has descended in the form of His holy name. His name and He, there is no difference. So why? Yadä yadä hi dharmasya glänir bhavati bhärata [Bg. 4.7]. People are now forgetting his relationship with God. Now this incarnation of Kåñëa in the form of His holy name, this chanting of Kåñëa will deliver all people of the world from this forgetfulness.

This is contributed by Lord Caitanya Mahäprabhu, He says that kali-käle näma-rüpe kåñëa-avatära, ihä haite sarva-siddhi haibe tomära. If you chant or if you associate with the chanting of holy name of Kåñëa, then you will get the highest perfectional stage of life, and we should accept that Kåñëa has descended at the present moment in the form of His holy name. Thank you very much. Any question?

Janärdana: (break?) ...like Satya-yuga for example. Was the chanting of the name of Kåñëa effective as it is in this age or is there another method prescribed as being more effective?

Prabhupäda: According to Çrémad-Bhägavatam there are different processes in different ages. But each process is as good as in any age. It is not that the chanting of Hare Kåñëa is in this age very effective and it was not effective in the Satya-yuga. It is not like that. The real process is described in the Çrémad-Bhägavatam,

Kalau tad dhari-kértanät. It is not that people were not chanting in the Satya-yuga, in Satya-yuga this holy name of Kåñëa. It is not that. But in this age the process adopted in the Satya-yuga, dhyäyataù, meditation, that is not possible. In the Satya-yuga, kåte yad... Because people were living at that time one-hundred-thousands of years. And it is said that Mahämuni Välméki, he meditated for sixty-thousands of years.

So unless you have got sufficient life, the meaning is that meditation process is difficult and you must have sufficient time to practice it and then come to the standard point of meditation. But in this age such kind of perfection in meditation is not possible. Therefore in this age especially recommended that you sit down together and chant Hare Kåñëa. It is very easy. Anyone and everyone can take part in it. There is no necessity of education, of pre-qualification. And because in this age people are very slow, very unfortunate, badly associated, so many [dis]qualification they have got at the present moment.

Therefore Caitanya Mahäprabhu has introduced according to çästra, according to the indication of the çästras, just like in the Çrémad-Bhägavatam and in other Puräëas, and other Vedic scriptures this is recommended. In Kali-santaraëa Upaniñad, in Brahmäëòa Puräëa, in Väyu Puräëa, this chanting of Hare Kåñëa Hare Kåñëa Kåñëa Kåñëa Hare Hare, Hare Räma Hare Räma Räma Räma Hare Hare is recommended. Çré Caitanya Mahäprabhu simply introduced it as a great propaganda. That is. Otherwise, this is recommended in every age. There are many devotees, they were chanting. But the process of meditation is not possible. Therefore simply on the basis of this process one can attain the highest perfectional stage.

Janärdana: I understand that the revelation given by Lord Caitanya Mahäprabhu is the fullest revelation of spiritual knowledge. Is the fullest revelation of spiritual knowledge.

Prabhupäda: Yes. Yes.

Janärdana: How come that if in this age of Kali people in general are less intelligent, in this particular age they've received the fullest revelation of knowledge? Why not in the Satya-yuga?

Prabhupäda: The fullest revelation of knowledge in Satya-yuga there was automatically. People were so advanced. Just like gradually we are declining our memory, duration of age, so many facilities we have declined. So in Satya-yuga people were by nature fortunate to have many facilities. So for this age, when we are in very fallen condition, this facility is offered so that we can take the same advantage as people in the Satya-yuga had by other processes. [break] They are not attending.

Pradyumna: I just want to clarify the meaning of dharma. Dharma always means, it always says the meaning, "That which cannot be changed."

Prabhupäda: That is real dharma. Just like the spirit soul is eternal, similarly, the spirit soul's natural occupation is also eternal. That cannot be changed. But when the spirit soul identifies himself with this body and the mind, that is changed. Just like at the present moment you have got American body. So your dharma or your occupational duty is different from another body. And the next life, if you change this body, you become say other animal or human being, then your occupational duty changes. But if you stick up to the spiritual platform, then that service mood to the Supreme Personality of Godhead will never change, either in this body or next body. [break]

Pradyumna: ...the Bhagavad-gétä if they weren't in the disciplic succession... Dharma isn't mentioned at all. Because "dharma" is used twice there. Once when Kåñëa comes because of discrepancy of dharma and then in the end, "Give up dharma." And they'd never understand that.

Prabhupäda: Well, dharma, of course, as enunciated by Lord Caitanya, the dharma is that your perfec... [break] ...but those who have got money, they'll purchase it.

manuñyäëäà sahasreñu
kaçcid yatati siddhaye
yatatäm api siddhänäà
kaçcin mäà vetti tattvataù
[Bg. 7.3]

Lord Kåñëa said that out of many, many thousands of people, one becomes interested in perfection of life. And out of many, many thousands of persons who have attained perfection, they can understand Kåñëa. So Kåñëa understanding is also very difficult. Kåñëa is personally explaining Himself, His devotees are presenting Kåñëa consciousness movement, and right manner. But people are unfortunate. It will take some... But it is our duty to canvass. That is our business. Either they may accept or not accept, it is our duty. Just like in the university sometimes some particular class is maintained even at a loss. So there is no question of loss and gain. It is our duty to serve Kåñëa; therefore we shall go on trying, trying for it, to distribute Kåñëa consciousness.

Guest: (indistinct)

Prabhupäda: What is that?

Devotee: Well, I don't fully understand in this... Something about Subhadrä. Is the relation to...?

Prabhupäda: Subhadrä? Subhadrä is the sister of Kåñëa, and she is incarnation of Durgä.

Devotee: Subhadrä is the external, external energy? Is Subhadrä in the spiritual world? Is Subhadrä in the spiritual world?

Prabhupäda: Yes. Yes.

Devotee: She's in the spiritual world?

Prabhupäda: No. In one sense, she is also in spiritual world because she is energy of Kåñëa. So Kåñëa's energy is also eternal. So wherever Kåñëa is there, His energy is there. But her activities are in the material world.

Just like a king is there, and he has got all kinds of officers with him, but some officer is engaged in the government house. Other officers, they are engaged outside the government house. The officers who have got engagement outside the government house they may be sitting with Kåñëa, may be sitting with the governor or the king, but he has no business within the government house. In the government house there is a particular secretary, particular man in charge.

Similarly, in the spiritual world, the energy which is working, that is called yogamäyä. And in the material world, the energy which is working, that is called mahämäyä. So Subhadrä is... Viñëu-çaktiù parä proktä [Cc. Madhya 6.154]. Actually, Kåñëa's energy is spiritual. That is not material.

Just try to understand that there is department of welfare and there is department of police. It does not mean that welfare department is very favorite to the government and police department is not favorite. Do you think it is like that? For the government, both the departments are equal. Just try to understand. So the material energy is working in a different way, that does not mean that material energy is not liked by Kåñëa. It has got the same importance as the spiritual energy. But the material energy is engaged in a thankless task for punishing the conditioned soul. Just like the police department. So for Kåñëa, there is no difference between material energy and spiritual energy. For Kåñëa it is all the same because He has got one energy. Just like electricity. Somewhere it is working for cooling purpose and somewhere it is working for heating purpose. But the generation of electric from the electric powerhouse, the energy is the same, electric. Similarly, Kåñëa's energy is always spiritual. There is no difference His energy and He. But it is acting in a different way. Paräsya çaktir vividhaiva çrüyate. Vividhaiva çrüyate. Paräsya çaktiù, the Supreme Lord, He has got energy. The energy is one. And similarly, He is, in some of the Puräëas it is described that Durgä is also Rädhäräëé. In the Brahma-saàhitä you'll find it. Have you read it? Yes. So so far energy is concerned, it is always spiritual, but it is acting in a different way, in a different field of activities. It is clear? Not clear you say?

Devotee: I think it's as much clear as it can be.

Prabhupäda: What is the difficulty of understanding? The energy is one. Kåñëa's energy is one. Viñëu-çaktiù parä proktä [Cc. Madhya 6.154]. So in relationship to Kåñëa there is no distinction of energy, but for our understanding we can take that it is working sometimes in inferior qualitative form. Just like in this material world, and sometimes it is working in superior qualitative form in the spiritual world.

The same thing, that electric energy sometimes working for cooling, sometimes working for heating. But to the engineer of electric energy, who is generating, for him there is no such distinction. But those who are using it, they are thinking it is hot, it is cool, but the energy is the same. Try to understand in this way. Kåñëa's energy, He cannot, I mean to say, distribute any inferior energy because He's not inferior. He's always superior, spiritual. Therefore His energy is always spiritual. But it is working for different purposes.

The material energy... I shall give you another example. Just like in the street light there is red light and green light and yellow light. The yellow light is, I mean to say, seen sometimes. But either the red light or the green light is always. But it is working under the same electric energy. Sometimes it appearing green, sometimes appearing yellow, sometimes appearing red. But on the background the same energy. Now, by the red light you have to stop, by green light you can start. Your activity becomes different by different light because light is acting by the same energy.

In the Bhagavad-gétä it is also said that mayädhyakñeëa prakåtiù süyate sa-caräcaram [Bg. 9.10]. In the Brahma-saàhitä also it is said, chäyeva yasya bhuvanäni vibharti durgä. She is also acting under Kåñëa's direction. So how she can be inferior?

Just like the criminals, they are thinking that "This police department is inferior or very botheration, bothering." It is in relation with me. But police department is not inferior department of the government. It has to act like that.

Similarly, material energy has to act to bewilder the living entities. That is under the direction of Kåñëa. We living entities under the material energy, we wanted to lord it over the material nature. So Kåñëa has given us facility: "All right. You try to." Because you cannot lord it over. This is false. But I have got the tendency to lord it over the material nature. So He's giving me the chance, but actually I cannot. Jaòa-bidyä jato mäyära vaibhava.

Now in the modern trend of civilization we are trying to control over the material nature, but actually we are being defeated. We try to control one law and we are being defeated by another law. Therefore great scientists like Professor Einstein, they thought defeated. That is explained in the Çrémad-Bhägavatam. Paräbhavas tävad abodha-jätaù. So long we are in ignorance how these laws of nature working under the Supreme direction, so our study of all these material nature's law is defeat. This is stated in the Çrémad-Bhägavatam.

And when we understand, as it is stated in the Bhagavad-gétä, mayädhyakñeëa prakåtiù süyate sa-caräcaram [Bg. 9.10], so that is the real understanding, to understand the lawmaker. Not to be struck with wonder with the activities of the law. The Vaiñëavas, they are concerned with the background lawmaker. And if you know the lawmaker, then automatically you know the laws, how they are acting. Kasmin tu bhagavo vijïäte sarvam idaà vijïätaà bhavati, the Vedic literatures says. So when we understand Kåñëa in perfection we can understand how His energy and different energies are working it will be revealed to us. And because all energies are working under the direction of Kåñëa, because it is in touch with Kåñëa, therefore nothing is inferior or material. Everything is spiritual. And higher platform therefore one can understand, sarvaà khalv idaà brahma. Whatever is acting...

In the Viñëu Puräëa also, the same thing is confirmed, parasya brahmaëaù çaktis tathedam akhilaà jagat. Whatever we are experiencing, that is simply action and reaction of the different energy of the Supreme Lord. Parasya brahmaëaù çaktis tathedam akhilaà jagat. So when we understand Kåñëa perfectly, then this distinction of superior, inferior, will disappear.

Just like some fruit you have purchased. You have purchased from the market, and some you are eating. So it is called inferior energy. The same fruit you offer to Kåñëa and eat, this is called superior energy. Now, how the same fruit becomes immediately from inferior condition to superior? Because it is offered to Kåñëa. Do you follow? Because it is offered to Kåñëa, ordinary rice, one say it is bhäta. But we say prasädam. A man may question how it has become prasädam? It is bhäta, rice. No. Because it is offered to Kåñëa, therefore it has changed its quality from inferior to superior.

So anything engaged in the service of Kåñëa, it is superior. In the higher sense, everything is serving Kåñëa. So those who are highly elevated to understand... But that is not to be imitated. For them, there is no higher or lower or superior or inferior. Everything he sees in Kåñëa connection. That is very higher stage of life. That is not to be imitated. Actually, when one is perfectly spiritually enlightened, for him there is no such distinction inferior or superior. Everything in connection with Kåñëa is superior. [break]

Pradyumna: ...chanting Hare Kåñëa.

Prabhupäda: Therefore Kåñëa consciousness is the main principle. Who is acting. The person who is acting, if he is in Kåñëa consciousness then whatever he is acting that is spiritual. Yes?

Pradyumna: In the first and the second chapter, also, about dharma in the second chapter. It says ahaituki and another... So that devotional service has to be causeless in order to be the perfect conductor?

Prabhupäda: Yes. All right. Let us have kértana. Yes, you want to ask? Yes.

Devotee: Man has forgotten and is serving mäyä, he's actually serving Kåñëa anyway then why is he miserable?